This week’s question is cribbed from one of my favorite TV podcasts, The Hollywood Prospectus:
Does anyone actually like the Fantastic Four?
It’s the kind of question that incites me, causing my blood to boil over the inflammatory accusations of the cinematically misinformed. It’s also a totally fair question, and one that I was asking my Dad mere years ago.
We live in a world of two diametrically opposed “self-evident” truths. For the Marvel comics faithful, the Fantastic Four are the band that started it all, the first Stan Lee and Jack Kirby comic of the Silver Age and the lynchpin through which the Marvel Universe we love has grown ever since. For the casual pop culture enthusiast, the Fantastic Four have had four dull-to-terrible movies, haven’t been one of Marvel’s flagship comics since the 60’s, and are basically a Norm Macdonald joke (or bonkers Arrested Development C-plot).
They’re simultaneously a sacred cow and a bad hamburger. What’s the case for the Fantastic Four?
10 Reasons I Love The Fantastic Four
1) The Fantastic Four Introduced Doctor Doom
And Skrulls, and Black Panther, and Silver Surfer, and Galactus, and the Watcher… the list goes on.
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The point is this: Nearly everything in the Marvel Universe ran through the Fantastic Four for the first decade of their existence. We live in an Avengers world, but it was the Fantastic Four that Spider-Man tried to join in his first ever solo series issue, Amazing Spider-Man #1.
Most importantly, Doctor Doom. My favorite Marvel villain, and quite possibly my favorite rapper. It pains me to say this, and Victor Von Doom would have my head if he overheard, but Doctor Doom just does not matter without the Fantastic Four. Yes, he’s been a great villain for the Avengers and Spider-Man, and really the Marvel Universe at large. But none of that has ever mattered more than his fierce, unshakable hatred of Reed Richards and the Fantastic Four. It’s one of the best villain pairings in Marvel, right up there with Professor X and Magneto, Spider-Man and Norman Osborn, and Deadpool and Squirrel Girl.
It’s a beautiful antagonism, and even when the relationship evolves to the quirky frenemy of Jonathan Hickman’s run on Fantastic Four, you know Doom’s just a tic away from some mad scheme wreaking havoc on the Four. There’s a reason we know Doom’s role in Marvel’s current Secret Wars is teetering on the edge of his one unseen fear. Just look who Doom bothers to mention in this panel from New Avengers:
2) Early Reed Smokes a Pipe Constantly And Says Things Like…
3) Sue Is the Strongest Member of the Family
There’s a consistent refrain in more modern Fantastic Four stories that it’s not the Thing’s rocky bulk or Johnny Storm’s fiery versatility, but Susan Richard’s force field manipulation that represents the most dangerous threat. This development can undoubtedly be traced back to John Byrne’s run in the 80’s, but one of the clearest representations that come to mind is how Sue deals with Wolverine during his brainwashing in Enemy of the State.
Factor in the fact that she’s a mother of two (and a gorgeous one at that) and the artist formerly known as the Invisible Girl is one of the strongest moms in comics.
4) Ben and Johnny and Possibly Making Me Cry
It’s often difficult to distill the familial aspects of the Fantastic Four. Check out just about any written piece about what makes the team tick, and you’ll definitely see the word “family” more than you care to count. It’s frequently unclear what this means in terms of storytelling. In technical terms, Benjamin J. Grimm, aka The Thing, isn’t actually related to anyone on the team, and Johnny is just Reed’s brother-in-law (but not for 43 issues!).
It’s this slight distance that really adds to the dynamic, as Ben and Johnny are more brothers by choice than anything. Naturally, this leads to incessant pranks and needling, but it also leads to some completely beautiful exchanges. There’s Johnny taking Ben out for his perfect day in the city during his one day a year he gets to be Ben Grimm (Hickman’s 2008 to 2012 run), and then later during the “Three” story arc, there’s Ben reacting to Johnny’s heroic decision. You’ll never hear it from me, but this gets me every single time. Seriously, I nearly lost it just trying to grab this screenshot:
5) Every Time Reed Grows a Sadness Beard
Speaking of tears…
6) Trust
Reed Richards does some pretty insane things for a married man with children. He discovers the negative zone by walking into it with a rope tied around his waist. He tries to figure out how he screwed up the Civil War so bad by teaming up with a Council of Interdimensional Reeds. He gives Sue serious reason to mistrust him, world’s smartest man or no.
And yet, even when Reed is making out with a Skrull invader in an effort to conceal his thoughts (sure Reed)
Or when Reed is inviting all of the Fantastic Four’s worst enemies over to their house (!!!)
Sue stands by him. It’s a wonderful marriage. I’ve said this too many times already, but it’s true: Best marriage in the Marvel Universe! (Honorable mention to Luke Cage and Jessica Jones for the more recent runner up.)
7) Future Foundation
During Hickman’s epic science fiction fantasy odyssey, the Fantastic Four branched out a bit by starting their own school (All before Professor X could find his New Mutants patents) and launching a second title. This led to a strong companion piece for Hickman’s giant story, as well as a superior Four book from Matt Fraction and Mike Allred during Marvel NOW!
Net net, Future Foundation has been a great addition to the Marvel stable, giving us such joyously humorous child geniuses as Bently-23 and Franklin & Leech. Not to mention:
Spider-Man and the Human Torch rooming together:
A Pool Party Issue:
And one of the most unexpectedly beautiful moments involving a floating moloid head in all of fiction.
8) Best Catchphrases in Comics
9) The Fantastic Four Don’t Have To Do This
While heroes like Batman and Spider-Man have harrowing origin stories that use tragedy to propel them into lives of fighting crime, the Fantastic Four have no such driving force. I could spend much too long explaining their origin (they kind of just steal a rocket because SCREW COMMUNISM?) but simply put, it’s patriotic altruism and an insatiable desire to learn that guides the team.
I mean, look at this team, Reed is the smartest man in the world, and they have their own building complete with a plane hangar.
Nonetheless, this family chooses to save earth again and again. They just choose to be heroes. That’s just who they are.
10) Odin & Galactus Spoke On Behalf Of Reed Richards At His Cosmic Trial
Come on.
So what do you think? Are the Fantastic Four too dated, or do you love the team for your own reasons? Do what feels right to you in the comments!
View Comments (11)
I cannot say much about them since I'm fairly new to the Marvel Universe. But I started my journey as you suggested with Waid's run: and I must say, I loved it. And I love them both as a team and as a family. Reason number 9 is my personal favourite. Being a HUGE Batman fan makes me see through every comicbook character and compare him/her with Batsy. Still, having this team with no secret identity, no tragedy, just being super all the time is so cool. And man, Reed's beard reflects his inner conflict SO well.
Reed's got a mean beard rocking in Secret Wars right now, so consider conflict established :)
Nice website
I strongly feel that f4 needs to be a "soap opera" type comic. Hickmans run has been my favorite of modern comics, but only because of what it has led to. It also had the drama that Dave mentioned, and I loved that part, and the textless issue that followed.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: rather than a movie, it should be a show. Just imagine that the movie we just saw had a cleaner ending with a cliff hanger, and then we waited next week for another episode. Doesn't it seem like it would have more of a "let's see what they do" to it? It's been said we are in the golden age of tv, and I feel like several people have daredevil at the top of their marvel list.
We need time to develop a family that we care about. Imagine that a season finale ends with galactus, or even just the surfer. These characters seem to be viewed as ridiculous by a lot of "fans" of comic movies. People always complain about galactus being like the smoke monster from lost in f4 2 (even tho u can make out his head in the clouds) and I agree. Is it really too much to have a purple planet eater? How is that what the studio deems too much? This is a story about a man that can stretch, an invisible woman, a man on fire, and a rock monster. Seriously? Galactus is too much? Anyways, I'm ranting- it seems like it would not have been looked at so crazy in a tv show.
Furthermore, if a writer is going to pick it up, they need to understand: we need a good story, with supreme characters. James Robinson had some great potential crossing over with his invaders (the post cataclysm galactus, the eternals, the kree) but he spent too much time with both series writing about radiance, the wizard, Bentley, and whatever those last few were about. Also it seemed totally out of sync with what else was going on in the marvel universe. I mean, come on! Dr doom is about to be god! Are we seriously spending time with psycho man?
Basically: the current youth is not going to like the f4 if it is a family taking care of simple one shot story problems. It isn't spiderman, you know? They need something exciting, and maybe there is just no hope for f4 in regards to kids, but they can at least give us "adults" something bigger. Shouldn't there be an amazing secret wars f4 going on right now? Why is there a million x-men titles involved? Because they capture the youth and adults at the same time. But a husband and wife just maybe isn't sexy enough or something. Also leaving out the surfer, galactus, and doom is always a mistake when it comes to f4 and too many writers do it.
Make it a warm sci fi show, or a deep sci fi comic. Otherwise delete it and let the characters pop up here and there like the eternals.
I'd watch the heck out of a Sci Fi / High Fantasy Fantastic Four. Give Marvel that Game of Thrones budget and let's go.
The Secret Wars point is an interesting one. In a lot of ways, the main event is that FF book, given Doom's absorption of the first family. But their story (and Doom's various punishments for all of them) is a big tie-in vacuum. I feel like a Doom hunting a multiverse of Reeds down would be my favorite comic.
Totally agree, that would be sweet
'Nuff said Dave.
The problem is that FF is a tittle that relies too much on the the creative team.
Everybody loved it during the Waid/Wieringo run, Millar/Hitch run was kinda warm & Hickman run was a little bit of a "sleeper" run that people only noticed it too late.
I believe that right now FF needs a New-Image Comics treatment. A competent writer with green light to create and a reliable artist like the portuguese Jorge Coelho (he did Polarity with Max Bemis, some fill ins at Venom & Loki & he is currently doing Sleepy Hollow & John Flood for Boom!).
If that doesn't work - god forgive me - just put Joe Madureira drawing it for at least two years (yeah, you lazy artist...two years drawing comics).
I don't think that the new movie was as bad as everyone says, I saw much of Warren Ellis ideas there and the only problem was it was too short due to FOX-lack of interest in this movie rather than pissing of Marvel studios.
There's definitely a ton riding on the creative team behind the first family, as is true of most comics. I'm on board with your suggestion for sure.
I agree with all you say, except "haven’t been one of Marvel’s flagship comics since the 60’s"
While it may not have been THE flagship title, during the Byrne run it was the best thing Marvel had going for it...I've recently been rereading a bunch of '80s stuff and nothing holds up as well, not X-Men, not Avengers, maybe some Amazing Spider-man, but Byrne's FF is timeless.
And then the Hickman runs it was one of the flagship titles. Heck, the seeds of all that have been going in in Marvel for the last few years were planted in the Hickman issues.
I certainly don't disagree there's been good Fantastic Four since the 60's. I'd throw in Waid & Wieringo's early 2000's run too.
Although for my money, Simonson's Thor can take Byrne's Fantastic Four any day of the week. Not that I'd ever want to have to choose :)
True. I forgot about Simonson's Thor...I re-read that after seeing the film, and it is still great. All the more so when compared to Defalco's run, which I have had to look at a again due to re-reading Secret Wars II era.